culture shock

[Rodeheavers]

Below is a letter from a young physician by the name of Dr. Starner Jones. His short two-paragraph letter to the White House accurately puts the blame on a "Culture Crisis" instead of a "Health Care Crisis". It's worth a quick read:



Dear Mr. President:

During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.

While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.

And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture", a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".

Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.

Respectfully,

STARNER JONES, MD

[2001GTTT]

agree 100%!!

[94svtcobra]

amen tim

[Bdubya]

I can see the thought process on this, but the same could be said for school (property) tax. Alot of people complain about this national health care across the board, but what difference is there in us paying for this compared to all of us paying for public schooling? I don't have any kids in school but yet I pay for everyone elses to go?!? The government runs this, but noone complains about this "socialism". Is this fair to me? No. Is it fair for the 85 y.o. husband and wife who haven't had kids in school for the last 50 years? No. Maybe everyone that has kids in school should split it up amongst themselves? That doesn't seem fair now does it? The government runs the local mail and schooling, so what difference does this make? This Dr. is'nt thinking about the widowed grandma who doesn't have enough money for her meds because social security doesn't cover them all or the 20 y.o. college kid who is starting out working at McDonalds till they can find a decent paying job. This Dr. needs to look a little further beyond his current patient. Maybe if we had a National healthcare maybe my dad wouldn't be $50k in debt trying to pay for my mothers chemo after his medical was used up with $5000 scans that goes towards paying these Dr.'s $150k salaries. Btw after they burnt up his insurance the scans magically dropped to $500 a piece out of pocket and she fuckin' died anyway.

[somethingclever]

Bdubya,

Very, very, sorry to hear about your mother.

If paying for school tax (if you don't have kids that attend) is unacceptable, how is it acceptable to pay for someone else's healthcare?

I don't follow your logic.

[Bdubya]

Bdubya,

Very, very, sorry to hear about your mother.

If paying for school tax (if you don't have kids that attend) is unacceptable, how is it acceptable to pay for someone else's healthcare?

I don't follow your logic.
Thats exactly my point. It doesn't make sense because to me its the same thing. I'm paying for something that I don't use. Its unacceptable to me to have to pay for either thing if I don't use them. I will (in a few years) have a child in school, then I will understand paying the tax. My point is, people are all up in arms about paying for "other" peoples healthcare, but noone blinks twice about paying for their neighbors childrens education???? The difference is one thing we have been paying for for years and its just accepted because its always been that way and the healthcare is a totally new deal. Know what I mean? Its the same deal, both government run, both to be paid for by thousands of people who won't use the services.

[somethingclever]

I see. I misread your post as saying you don't agree with paying for the school tax but you do agree with government healthcare.

[Bdubya]

I see. I misread your post as saying you don't agree with paying for the school tax but you do agree with government healthcare.
I don't want to pay for either. I just don't see peoples' logic in one is the devil and the other a saint. If they can cut spending somewhere else to fit this in (which won't happen) I have no problem with it. Noone complains about bubbas 4 kids going to ,publicly paid for, school while he is on welfare, but damned if i'll pay for them to go the hospital?!? Does that make any sense to anyone?

[Rodeheavers]

i hear yah on the school tax thing, I am basically paying double! I pay regular school tax and we are home schooling our kids and to get a curriulum that doesnt suck and actually teachs truths/actual history we have to pay a pretty penny for it.

[2010 SS]

I don't want to pay for either. I just don't see peoples' logic in one is the devil and the other a saint. If they can cut spending somewhere else to fit this in (which won't happen) I have no problem with it. Noone complains about bubbas 4 kids going to ,publicly paid for, school while he is on welfare, but damned if i'll pay for them to go the hospital?!? Does that make any sense to anyone?

No buddy, it makes no sense at all. But who can come up with one answer that will make everybody happy? I don't think anyone can. I hate seeing our tax money support people who have no intention at all to work, that's my biggest issue. I wish that could change, make those people get jobs. But we're losing jobs overseas. Now what? A man can't get a job like he could 50 years ago or so. Think of the thousands laid off over the last couple years. So, our government wants our money to do what they see fit, big business is taking our middle class jobs away, people are losing homes, but experts can't figure y our economy took a $h!+. Its just an endless cycle of BS! That's just my two cents.

[cwh19]

I think EVERYONE should pay school taxes. Period.

Without funded public school systems (which most arent funded enough), this country would be even more un-educated than it already is. We are already drastically behind China, India, and Japan in math and sciences; which are obviously the subjects of the future. 70 year old people might not want to pay school taxes but that is just stupid. In ten years when they are 80, they will need the doctors that 10-15 years ago were graduating highschool. Without that education, they would be in their deathbed instead. :rip:

PS: The government absolutely needs to regulate healthcare in some form or another.

[police4.6]

i agree with colton... i mean i know what you guys mean but its either pay x amount over your whole life or pay that amount over 10 years.. and without education everything would fail. and health care is needed. i am currently attending college having no idea what to do and the only reason why is because it is cheaper to pay for 12 credits of class and books at a community college then pay for health insurance for myself since i am still on my parents. and try being an undergrad student that maybe took a couple extra years.. now way you are gonna be able to make the money to pay for health insurance AND go to school... but tim i get this article... but i mean if someone gets hurt in a car accident at a track we would all pay for that.. or my pap when he had his anurism instead of my family getting a 250,000 dollar charge for it. i think realistically insurance should be able to go between states.. and create some competition.. i mean who on here has UPMC im guessing about 75 to 80 percent.. i think that is the problem. but something needs to be done weather we pay for it, or they compete.. i think everyone can agree to that.

[Mach1Mush]

Gettin away from the school tax thing and back to medicare, put this into perspective......I have a full time job with decent pay and decent health care. For me to get hired and keep this job I must be able to pass random drug and alcohol test, which is no problem for me. What is a problem for me is people on well-fare who can sit around all day and get stoned and wasted and not even try to be good contributors tosociety get free health care free perscriptions/. even single moms on well fare can get money to buy a car and free day care... Some people just have no morals and priorities and man it pisses me off and im sure it pisses everyone else off who works hard and at least tries at life. Sometimes all you gotta do is try and sometimes things come together

[Bdubya]

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg/400px-Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/e/e7/Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg/400px-Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg.png
Guess which country out of the 28 more widely known ones have no public healthcare. I'll give you a hint, you live there. Not saying that theirs are all that great, but its there. Seems like the entire government needs revamped, trimmed down, but it won't happen. I wonder if our good Dr. received any type of grants to go to college??? If he did, he's using the system the same as his "subject" out tax dollars.

[Bdubya]

Gettin away from the school tax thing and back to medicare, put this into perspective......I have a full time job with decent pay and decent health care. For me to get hired and keep this job I must be able to pass random drug and alcohol test, which is no problem for me. What is a problem for me is people on well-fare who can sit around all day and get stoned and wasted and not even try to be good contributors tosociety get free health care free perscriptions/. even single moms on well fare can get money to buy a car and free day care... Some people just have no morals and priorities and man it pisses me off and im sure it pisses everyone else off who works hard and at least tries at life. Sometimes all you gotta do is try and sometimes things come together

I'm in the same boat, passing drug test to keep my job is required. If I gotta pass one to give my money away, they should have to pass one to get it.

[cwh19]

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care)
Guess which country out of the 28 more widely known ones have no public healthcare. I'll give you a hint, you live there. Not saying that theirs are all that great, but its there. Seems like the entire government needs revamped, trimmed down, but it won't happen. I wonder if our good Dr. received any type of grants to go to college??? If he did, he's using the system the same as his "subject" out tax dollars.

Thats a good map. I bet the US will never be filled in either, which is probably one of the worst things ever.

But a grant for someone to go to med school does not even close to equal a waste of space thats on medicaid. Apples to oranges.

I completely agree about the drug testing also. I also have to do it at work on the spot if I'm asked. Everyone there knows that I don't do that stuff so I'm never asked, but in theory the chance is still there. Yet morons all the time are getting free insurance for only contributing to society by helping failure statistics.

[Bdubya]

grant for someone to go to med school does not even close to equal a waste of space thats on medicaid. Apples to oranges.


I understand what you're saying. One is going to towards advancing and one is going towards enabling. In either case its still my tax dollars. The Dr. criticized the patient for not paying using the tax dollars for a free medicine, but the Dr. probably used those same tax dollars to help pay for his education. It is different, but its all pulled from the same pot of gold imo. Good points all around.

[somethingclever]

I
We are already drastically behind China, India, and Japan in math and sciences; .


I have no clue where you got that "fact", but I have worked in the first two countries many times and will tell you first hand, I have yet to meet someone there that wasn't, for lack of a better word, an idiot.

China's traditionally schooling + college is equivalent to FOUR YEARS LESS schooling than here.


Ever wonder why the people in the first two countries you listed come HERE for education if they can afford it? :shocked:

[2010 SS]

In this country you should have to put forth effort and contribute to society to get this proposed healthcare, or any kind of assistance, not sit on your @ss when the rest of us work. Doesn't mean you should be rich, just get a job and do something!

[MBH]

I agree 100% with the original post/chain email, as I am in (dental assistant, for now) and have many friends in the medical field (PA, MD, PT, various dental specialties, Optometry, etc.). The patients we see are fantastic for the most part, but our office is booked solid 6 months in advance, with only room left for emergencies (which generally get filled up by non emergencies). We turn down a handful of insurance companies, because quite frankly they don't pay anything near what they should OR they don't cover much anything at all.

Two very close friends' dad is a general surgeon - I think he gets something ridiculously low like $150 for an appendectomy at the hospitals in the area he works for. Think about that. The guy that is cutting into you and removing a nonvital organ gets about the same as a top of the line pair of Nike shoes. He hasn't had, let alone lost, any lawsuits, yet he still has to pay $150,000++ in malpractice insurance every year just because of the nature of his job. I guess that's what you get when you're in the company of less than .1% of the world in terms of education.

I have a million stories like this, and that's probably a terrible example, but it's really hard to see how fucked up things are from the outside in.

If you think your health will get better with a single payer system, you're retarded. Point blank. Your health is entirely dependent on your own choices and actions (don't mind some genetic dispositions and riskfactors that virtually no amount of insurance can change).

If you think your health CARE will get better with a single payer system, naive. Hate waiting for a doctors visit now? Think about it, your doctors' waiting rooms are full of people with insurance that will be making a co-pay for the visit. Imagine how jam packed it will be when any $$$$$$$ can just come in simply because he or she is American. Looking from the inside out, you will see healthcare decline dramatically if that happens - and it will bankrupt America in the process.


edit: The health care system is one of America's only remaining pillars of strength. It's the best in the world. That doesn't need to change. What does need to change are all of the sleezy lawyers that will go to court over just about anything, "steal" a bunch of money from malpractice insurance or pharmaceutical companies by convincing a jury of people that have no idea so much as to what the major systems of the body are or first pass metabolism is. The doctors and pharm companies that legitimately mess up definitely deserve to go to court, but soooooooooooooo often they go to court and lose because of reasons outside of their control/responsibility and a savvy lawyer has his way with them

[MBH]

Oh yeah, and we are "behind" those countries because of a stereotype that we have. The majority of those countries are horribly uneducated. Do you honestly think that India, where people bathe in $$$$ water and live in shacks, possess a higher education than an average American? No. But they do have a $$$$ ton of people, which will give the impression that there are a lot of smart people there - as there are - just not disproportionately. Same goes for China. Japan is just ruthless in terms of their discipline and schooling system from what I can understand.


Oh yeah, and one more thing - Japan is better at math, not because they're smarter.. but because the language for their numbers is shorter than ours. Learning (for the average person) is all about repetition and perseverance, and they can fit more repetition into the same school day because it takes them less time to pronounce the numbers. I'm dead serious. Outliers by Malcom Gladwell goes into some detail about this and a few other very interesting outliers of society (richest, best athletes, most intelligent, etc. great read, highly recommend it).

[police4.6]

Bo i get what you are saying man because my mom is a nurse and she has explained this all to me.. but dont you think that in this area for say that there is predominantly UPMC or Highmark? i mean i seriously think that these companies possess the same ability as comcast to just jack up the prices of everything because they have no other companies saying "oh well we will be 20 dollars less a month now compete with that" i agree that all healthcare coming through the gov't would be bad due to waiting and everything but there is no reason why companies should have a monopoly on a certain area.


and just so everyone knows.. i still love all you guys no matter how you look at dis stuff :hippie:

[cwh19]

Bo you make alot of sense. Im currently in school for biological sciences for pre-medicine because I want to be a radioligist, so I've really tried to keep in touch with alot in the medical field. I actually got called in for jury duty over the summer for a malpractice suit. They didn't go over the specifics in the jury selection part, but the "victim" was walking around and talking, even to the doctor he was suing! It was ridiculous.

In an economics class I took last semester, we talked for hours about healthcare. Whenever you go to the hospital for something that seems even remotely serious, they run so many tests its ridiculous. About half of them aren't directly related to the cause, yet they are administered anyway. This is for two reasons, both involving the idiot patient suing for malpractice.

1. They need to run as many tests as possible as soon as possible to make it seem to the average person that they are doing everything they can
2. They need to run these tests to charge the insurance company for them to protect themselves from the millions they could potentially get sued for if this person doesn't feel that they got the absolute best healthcare.

Whenever I said government needs to regulate healthcare, I by no means meant that it should be payed for. There are, however a few things they can do to help. The first is put a ceiling on the amount of money that can be sued for in a malpractice case. I think some states already do this but I'm not too sure. This way, the extra tests and such could be saved for people that actually need them.

The other involves the ICU. Whenever 90 year old people and terminally ill patients are in the ICU on breathing tubes and other living support machines, it costs tens of thousands of dollars PER DAY. Why do you think insurance premuims always go up? Those resources would be much better used on people that could actually be saved. Many of the people in the ICU are people that, unfortunately enough, are past the point of recovery, yet there families continue to keep them alive under a false hope with no out-of-pocket money being charged to them. If the families pay for that expensive, then by all means go for it. But I'm sure if you could actually ask these non-coheren people what they would pefer, I'm sure it wouldnt be laying in a bed for weeks, not being able to move, eat, speak, and stay attached to ten different kinds of life support. The amount of time a patient can be on these things whenever there is no hope of recovery should be mandated.

Whenever I said about the eduaction of India, China, and Japan, I meant that they VALUE education so much more. During grade school, kids are pushed to ridiculous ends to succeed. If that mentality was in the states, with our technology and resources, we would be lightyears ahead of any other nation. But unfortunately, education just doesnt seem as important here.

[Balaska347]

Wow some people just have no clue. Im an RN that works at a hospital so I pretty much see what goes on from every aspect. Bo pretty much nailed it dead on and beat me to the punch, but atleast he saved me some typing.

Socialized medicine (National insurance) would be the another huge mistake made by this country. Like said before, health care is this country's back bone right now. People that want national insurance dont understand how it works. You basically have no say on what care you can get. It works like triage. The goverment will tell you if you can have a surgery. I your mother has cancer and is probably going to be terminally ill and I am basically healthy other then needing a certain surgery. Guess what, Im getting the surgery and your mother is not. Hmm... Do you want a stack of bills or do you want the goverment to tell you that you cant have the procedure.

The biggest problem is because everone wants to sue health care workers. Another problem is people know how to abuse the system. For example, I get patients that are admitted to the hospital and while they are there they know exactly what to say to get a longer stay and more pain medication (dilaudid). Then the insurance companies only will pay so much according to the diagnosis and if the patient comes back in the future for the same problem, guess what, the hospital has to eat the cost. I had a patient that was adimitted for observation which is a 23 hour stay and thats all the insurance will pay. Well the family would not come get the patient because they didnt want them to come home. So, we said we would place the patient, the family just needed to pick a place. To make a long story short the family made excuse after excuse and this patient was at the hospital for 3 weeks. Guess what, the hospital got paid for 1 day.

Do you know why the hospital charges the insurance companies more the the private payer. Because the private payer usually doesn't pay the bill so they pick up the slack.

There is much more I just dont feel like typing anymore.

If anything should be free it should be birth control so people that can't afford children can't have them and then go on welfare.

[cwh19]

The biggest problem is because everone wants to sue health care workers.

Absolutely right.